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Super Smash Bros. 3DS/Wii U


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I think the video would be much better without the gimmicky chat sections, but nonetheless, it makes good points.

 

Basically, Melee wasn't the game Massivehero Samurai intended it to be, so he "fixed" it.

 

And guess what? Melee still exists. The Metagame can still play melee, it still exists. Plus, look at Project M. Who's to stop them for doing the same with Sm4sh if they wanted?

 

Plus, why not adapt to the current game? I'm sure brawl and Sm4sh have some sort of crazy exploits the metagame haven't even bothered to discover, because they're still too busy arguing about Melee.

 

That video is quite interesting. So, Melee, with it's success, was a beautiful mistake. I can agree with what the guy is saying. I mean, I get that Sakurai only had a VERY short time to balance the game out, it was a surprise how good the game was, especially if it took 13 months to complete it.

 

Anyways, this is off topic to Mr. Potatobadger's reply, but who are people's mains so far?

Mine are:

  • Robin
  • Sonic (Duh)
  • Zero Suit Samus
  • Lucina/Marth
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Plus, why not adapt to the current game? I'm sure brawl and Sm4sh have some sort of crazy exploits the metagame haven't even bothered to discover, because they're still too busy arguing about Melee.

It's this exact mentality that killed competitive Brawl in the first place. People spent months looking for some new exploit that would totally change the metagame and turn it into the sequel that everybody wanted, that would completely revive the competitive scene by magically turning it into a completely different game. It just doesn't work like that. Even if they somehow did find some massive new exploit that somehow nobody ever found during the years of dissecting the game, testing every single variable, taking the game apart and putting it back together again, it absolutely would not change anything. No exploit is going to magically increase the hitstun, no brand-new movement option is going to change the fact that tripping is a thing, or that the air game is pretty much nonexistant, or that there are no comboes at all. All of these things are core parts of the game that define how it plays, and these elements all make Brawl inherently more defensive than Melee. None of that would ever change. There's more to why people like Melee as a competitive game than simply "it has wavedashing." Wavedashing, dash-dancing and L-cancelling all contribute to the game by giving it more movement options, but people only like them because they contribute to what was already a fast and technical game in the first place. Brawl is not that. It's a completely different game from Melee, and trying to "adapt" by turning it into Melee is stupid.

 

In regards to Smash 4, from what I've seen most people have actually  been doing it right. They aren't trying to turn the game into something it's not, or force the metagame to develop. They're letting it develop at its own place, treating it as its own game that deserves to be kept separate from Melee. Some people will inevitably still prefer Melee's gameplay to Smash 4's, some will actually prefer Smash 4's slower gameplay, some won't be able to tell the difference between the two games in the first place, and some will treat them as two different games that are still both equally enjoyable. And that's fine. They're different games, and nobody is under any obligation to like either one of them. The "just accept change and move on to Smash 4" mentality is just as toxic as the "Smash 4 sucks because it isn't Melee and is just for casual scrubs" elitism that so many people associate with the Melee fanbase, and frankly it's disrespectful to both games.

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I think the video would be much better without the gimmicky chat sections, but nonetheless, it makes good points.

 And guess what? Melee still exists. The Metagame can still play melee, it still exists. Plus, look at Project M. Who's to stop them for doing the same with Sm4sh if they wanted?

 

Sigh...that video was terrible. He made no points whatsoever, it's just typical whining from people who know nothing about competitive play in videogames. The guy compared Melee to a TAS to make his point, how can anyone take him seriously. 

 

BTW, what is this "metagame" you people keep referring to, as if it's somehow something exclusive for Melee?  "Meta" refers to the collection of general knowledge about the game (that is naturally gained by people playing) that points the playerbase towards tactics that are generally more optimal. Nobody has to "TRY" to make a meta, it will naturally happen, even if the game sucks and doesn't want to have one, as evidenced by brawl.  

 

So, Melee, with it's success, was a beautiful mistake.

 

This seems to be the go-to argument about Melee's gameplay, and i find it silly because not only is it completely unfounded and nonsensical, even if it wasn't, it wouldn't make a bit of difference in regards to brawl or smash 4. The mistake was, in sakurai's eyes, the true skill ceiling of the game, which comes with the upside downside of players who invest time in the game being able to get a clear edge over those who don't. Sakurai's "fix" to this was simply design Brawl in a way where players are mechanically not allowed to have a significant edge over the opponent. 

 

1) L-cancelling is hard-coded into the game. It has specific conditions, inputs, clearly defined effects, and was a balance improvement to Z-cancelling from 64, which replaced landing lag animations with the normal one. In Melee, the same effect was changed and instead of canceling the animation, it cuts the lag time in half. In brawl, it was removed entirely, royally nerfing the shit out of every heavy character in the game, except the newcomers who were balanced around the removal.

 

2) Wavedashing is not a glitch, it's just a consequence of the engine's physics. It does not turn the player into a god of melee -- it's only used competitively as a spacing tool unless you're using Luigi or something. And BTW, the term came from Tekken. It's not a smash brothers technique.

 

But hey lets all call Melee a mistake. It's not like Smash 64 had way more hitstun, throws that KO'd, completely viable shieldbreaker and 0%-to-Death combos, 4 frame Z-cancelling and limited defensive options. It's not like Melee addressed any of those issues or anything. Completely random design! Brawl did so much for the series, suck it brawl haters

Edited by Serephim
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in other news, played some for glory on someones 3DS. Managed to go 10-0 with Lucina before i stopped, some of them without losing any lives. I had some really bad laggy matches, especially against JP players, but generally it wasn't all that bad in comparison to other fighters. But WHOOO boy online smash players are scrubby. Ignoring people who are just bad, the main tactic i've come across from competent people seems to be almost exclusively dodgeroll >> projectile spam, or bait attack >> dodgeroll >> dash special. 

 

But there do seem to be fairly practical ways of overcoming it. I've come to find that grabbing has been buffed nearly as much as roll/shield. It's fast enough to catch people who spam evasion, punish dash moves, and shit all over people who are too liberal with counter moves. And while side blast zones basically don't exist in smash 4, Star KOs are far more reliable when it comes to finishing off an opponent. Lucina's up-throw seems to achieve a killspark around 175-180% damage, which really isn't all that hard to achieve anymore, and grab attacks only become more effective at higher %s.

 

Also, a few things I came across about this game:

 

 

A bit of a double-edged sword of a mechanic, but one i can definitely get behind either way because it counteracts the thing I hated most about Brawl. Although stale moves work generally the same they did in Brawl, this seems to counteract it enough to make it not even noticeable, or at least not hinder me from getting a KO just because i'm winning. 

 

And another thing, edgehogging is gone from smash4, but players only get a single ledgegrab before they lose all edge invinciblity. Knockback on this game has you on the ledge alot, so this is another likable change for me for keeping momentum and discouraging camp tactics.

 

Rolls are still disgustingly annoyingly good, but at least getting people off the ground and into tumble is more rewarding now. Overall, For Glory mode would have really benefited from some platforms.

Edited by Serephim
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  • 1 month later...

So, Wii-U version moves noticeably faster, and the blast zones are significantly closer than on the 3DS version. 

 

I was going to main Lucina, but unfortunately she's a trash character, and received no buffs in Nintendo's recent "balance" patch. And although i dont mind being a low-tier warrior it's hard to play with people with her when I can just pick Marth. So i switched to Rosalina. 

Edited by Serephim
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@Serephim

 

I don't think the Wii U version is actually faster, it just feels faster for some reason. (which is 200% fine by me) Controlling it with a 3DS makes it feel 3DS speed again. But that's just my opinion, I dunno if it's actually faster or not.

 

And yea, the blast zones are a LOT closer than the 3DS version.

 

I'm still attempting to main Lucina, which is working out... Ok-ish... I've always sucked with Marth, but for some reason I'm REALLY good with Lucina. I dunno why, considering Marth and Lucina are practically identical.

 

-------------------

 

So I have 5 mains

 

Villager, Charizard, Lucina, Sonic, and King Dedede. Does that even count as mains at that point? I use them all equally, so.

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@ila

 

I get what your saying, but IMO, the 3DS version is still a lot of fun. It's impressive from a technical standpoint, and it's great with friends when your stuck at school or something. It just feels like the Wii U version but portable, farther blast zones, different levels, and not as great graphics.

 

Smash Tour is a LOT of fun once you learn how to play it. It's horrible at first, but once you get it, it's a lot of fun with friends.

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The closer blast zones are enough to make me never care to touch the 3DS version ever again.

 

 

I'm still attempting to main Lucina, which is working out... Ok-ish... I've always sucked with Marth, but for some reason I'm REALLY good with Lucina. I dunno why, considering Marth and Lucina are practically identical.

 

I was going to stick by Lucina, but she's literally just a bad version of Marth. I wouldn't mind playing a crappy character, if there wasn't one that was identical, yet better in every way.

 

I don't believe even a bad marth player would do better with Lucina. She's just weak. Hurts, but oh well.

Edited by Serephim
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I don't believe even a bad marth player would do better with Lucina. She's just weak. Hurts, but oh well.

 

Ironically enough, I have more fun playing as Lucina than Marth. Don't get me wrong, I think Marth is still a good player (As he is one of my mains), but I feel like Lucina plays a bit better because of her Sword Standardization (Is that even a real word?)

 

Because her sword got standardized, I feel as if Lucina feels "Fuller" than Marth.  I don't exactly know what words to put how Lucina feels. I DO know that Lucina feels different than Marth. She is definitely not weak, especially if you know how to control her.

 

By the way, my mains for Wii U and 3DS are ZS Samus, Samus, Marth/Lucina, Ike, Robin, Little Mac, Lucario, Shulk, Sonic... Ok, I think the word "Main" is excluded for me in these versions. :P

Edited by AnOrdinarySonicFan
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Ironically enough, I have more fun playing as Lucina than Marth. Don't get me wrong, I think Marth is still a good player (As he is one of my mains), but I feel like Lucina plays a bit better because of her Sword Standardization (Is that even a real word?)

 

Because her sword got standardized, I feel as if Lucina feels "Fuller" than Marth.  I don't exactly know what words to put how Lucina feels. I DO know that Lucina feels different than Marth. She is definitely not weak, especially if you know how to control her.

 

By the way, my mains for Wii U and 3DS are ZS Samus, Samus, Marth/Lucina, Ike, Robin, Little Mac, Lucario, Shulk, Sonic... Ok, I think the word "Main" is excluded for me in these versions. :P

 

Well on paper, Lucina's sword strikes are about 1% stronger than Marth's sourspot strikes, while Marth's sweetspots are on average about 2-3% stronger. I've KO'd people from the stage floor at like 60% before, something I've only ever accomplished with Lucina either by off-stage gimping or successful shield break.

 

Edit: Yes, standardization is a word.

 

Edit: and 60% from the stage floor on Wii-U. That shit is unheard of on 3DS.

Edited by Serephim
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Smash Tour still sucks.

Honestly all the single player aspects of SSB4 kinda suck. Classic in particular is at a low point, there is basically no replacement for Adventure mode (not that I wanted something large like SSE, I certainly did not) the target blast mode is absolute shit compared to the break the targets challenges in SSB64 and Melee, I haven't seen any particularly interesting event matches so far (I've only played about 10 so far), Master Orders turned out to be remarkably disappointing, Crazy Orders is slightly better and kind of works out to be an alternative to classic that you can only play sporadically, All Star Mode is a bit of a cluster fuck just on account of how many characters there are now, and even the end credits have been dumbed down to the point where it's just you fighting words in the normal engine now instead of flying through space shooting words.

I blame the fact that they wanted 3DS parity so badly.

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I think the difficulty change for classic was pretty dope, how losing permanently lowers the difficulty for you.

 

Smash has long since reached the point for me where i really only enjoy playing it with other people. Subspace was terrible, i was hoping for another adventure mode but whatever. Feels like alot of things have clearly suffered from 3DS development.

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Yeah, I suppose if there is one good thing about classic it's how difficulty works and how Master Hand plus Crazy Hand have a fair number of forms now, but when you consider how much variety is gone from the whole affair and how there is basically no structure to it now it's just kind of gross.

 

And while Subspace Emissary sucked, the boss arena mode that existed on account of it was awesome.

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I want to smash with someone.

 

giggity

 

 

I've been playing it since it came out. Locally of course, I don't have a Wii-U of my own. But nobody even really bothers with the 3DS version anymore, it almost feels like a demo now in comparison. Went to a local tournament in Georgia yesterday, the biggest use the 3DS version got was a makeshift controller for the WiiU version for 8 player. 

 

 

IN OTHER NEWS

 

A stroke of genius was shown in regards to the functionality of the Wii-U TWICE yesterday.

 

1) Before we went to the tournament, we set up some practice runs at a friends house, but didn't have an HD TV to plug the HDMI cable in. We used a PC monitor instead...but of course we had no speakers. I had the idea of just setting the Wii-U remote close by. Couldn't tell the difference.

 

 

2) At the tournament, a few people brought their WiiU's but after a while we had to give up a few of the TVs to host the SF4 and Marvel tournament streams. Someone got the bright idea to just plug the Wii into the wall, and set the controller down. We got a few chairs and used the WiiU-mote for 1v1 casuals.

 

Everyone who passed by, me included, mentioned how it awesome it was that nobody even realized it was possible. The Wii-U is literally a portable gaming system.

Edited by Serephim
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Oh yea, I use the whole portable console thing a LOT

 

I was in a Smash tourney last Sunday, and I brought my Wii U and the Gamepad to use to practice while waiting.

I've taken it to school and held mini-tourneys before.

 

Like, I've brought my Wii U plenty of places and used the gamepad as a TV. It's amazing. Just throw the gamepad into a laptop bag and bring a controller or 2 and take it anywhere.

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It's pretty dope man. The new Zelda is looking amazing, but if they can produce an equally good looking Metroid game (no Zebes warriors or Other M type shit) then I may actually consider it.

 

Of course, those would be the only games to look forward to on the console, but hey. At that point it wouldn't mind. 

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