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Sonic Fan Games vs. Sonic Hacks


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What would you rather play or make?

 

Fan Game - A non-accurate engine made with GameMaker, Multimedia Fusion, Flash, C++ or Construct.

Gameplay: It would be hard to be close to the original engine, but you're free to make new actions and moves.

Graphics: You are free to draw tiles and sprites with any of the 16777216 colors, or just rip art from spritesheets.

And, there is no sprite limit(?)

Sound: The fan games plays any sound clip. MP3, Ogg and MIDI are the most common formats.

Design: You will make a level from object and tiles. That's simple but may be frustating.

Memory: Don't worry about memory and object limit, unless your computer crashes or something like. 1GB may be enough.

Programming Language: You can use any programming language that can suppert DirectX or OpenGL,

or to use the built-in programming language in GameMaker, Construct or MMF2.

Compatibility: This may be a big problem if you want iOS, Android, Linux and Mac OSX will support the fan game.

Price: The game developing software (and the publishing, if your fangame is commercial) cost some dozens of dollars.

If your game is commercial, you can make money easily to cover the costs...

 

Overall: Fan Games are for creative people that want to simply make a speical Sonic Game.

Lazies are recommended to go hacking.

Awesome Fangames: Sonic Classic, All LakeFeperd's games, Sonic: Edge of Darkness.

 

Sonic ROM Hack - A very accurate pre-made Sonic Engine that can be changed with SonED2.

Gameplay: The engine is accurate and supports anything you want, but it is quite complicated to add new moves or fix bugs.

Graphics: You are restricted to 512 colors, 64 palette entries and some kilos of 16-color 8x8 tiles.

Also, it is quite hard to deal with mapping and sprite limit. Look at Sonic 3's awesome graphics.

Sound: You may find yourself moving between Mega PCM, S3K Flamewing Driver and S2 Clone Driver.

The soundtracks and SFX are based on 9-Channel SMPS with DAC and YM2612 FM.

If you move to SEGA CD, The engine can play CD-Quality MP3 Soundtrack.

Design: You need to use 128x128 tiles, objects, rings and confusing plane swappers.

Memory: Sega Genesis is limited to 64K RAM, and you can find it's difficult to deal with old memory, sprite and object limit.

Programming Launguage: Motorola 68000 Assembly. If you don't plan changing behavior, just use Hex Editor or SonED2.

Compatibility: It's not a big problem. Every computer has its own supported emulator.

You may need to fix bugs in order to make game playable in real hardware.

Price: Sonic Hacking is completely FREE. Unless you want a rare and vintage Genesis to test the game.

 

Overall: Sonic Hacking is for geeks that want to show what they can do to existing Sonic Game.

Awesome ROM Hacks: Sonic Megamix, Sonic 2 Retro Remix, Metal Sonic Hyperdrive, The S Factor.

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I started under the fangaming flag, then moved to romhacks, then moved to fangames, then moved to my own indie games.

Point is: They are complementary.

There are hacks that look like fangames, and there are fangames that look like hacks.

This association can be seen at the point where we are all Sonic fans, and we are also fans of the way a Sonic Engine operates.

 

 

From my point of view, the quick trip I had at romhacking made me understand better the way a processor and the memory work, and also introducted me to the way the old Sonic physics were programmed.

When I came back and finally started messing with Sonic Worlds, I noticed how different the collision was programmed on MMF2 to achieve a similar effect of Genesis games.

Both ways gave me info on how to code collision itself properly.

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You would be surprised how ridiculously inaccurate most sonic engines are. The current version of worlds is not very accurate. Even the Taxman Engine has some pretty glaring inaccuracies. For example, many animation speeds, and the spindash sound effect.

 

I'm sure, like, 98% of players would never notice any of those inconsistencies. They still play the same.

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  • 2 months later...

I'm sure, like, 98% of players would never notice any of those inconsistencies. They still play the same.

Pretty much this. While it's true a lot of fan engines have inaccuracies, does it really matter? Playability is always the most important aspect of the engine. Worrying about details like animation speeds or sound effects seems really nit picky to me.

However, I can't say I don't take a slight joy in playing terribly bad engines. It's really funny to see what happens when someone has little to no grasp of game design.

 

Overall: Fan Games are for creative people that want to simply make a speical Sonic Game.

Lazies are recommended to go hacking.

I feel the need to contend this only a bit. I wouldn't call ROM hacks lazy, necessarily. A good hack still takes a substantial amount of effort.

To answer overall, I'd be more likely to play fan games. While ROM hacks offer an "authentic" experience, I like to see more creativity from people.

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Worrying about details like animation speeds or sound effects seems really nit picky to me.

Honestly, animation speeds and sound effects aren't nitpicky in the slightest, especially considering that the sonic 2 re-release is a remake. It's not a remix, it's a 1:1 remake, and something like awfully noticeable animation differences and sound  modulation should be taken care of. The Taxman remakes are NOT fangames, they are official Sega products.

 

As for normal fangames. If sonic is running EXTREMELY fast, and his legs aren't moving very quick at all, then that's strange, and should be corrected. Something like that is so simple to fix and is a core part of the original sonic games.

 

As for sound... The spindash sound not modulating is no big deal, not every engine can do that. As for the quality of sound effects themselves... There is no excuse to NOT have HQ sound effects in a fangame in this day and age. There's plenty of resources out there.

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Honestly, animation speeds and sound effects aren't nitpicky in the slightest, especially considering that the sonic 2 re-release is a remake. It's not a remix, it's a 1:1 remake, and something like awfully noticeable animation differences and sound  modulation should be taken care of. The Taxman remakes are NOT fangames, they are official Sega products.

 

As for normal fangames. If sonic is running EXTREMELY fast, and his legs aren't moving very quick at all, then that's strange, and should be corrected. Something like that is so simple to fix and is a core part of the original sonic games.

 

As for sound... The spindash sound not modulating is no big deal, not every engine can do that. As for the quality of sound effects themselves... There is no excuse to NOT have HQ sound effects in a fangame in this day and age. There's plenty of resources out there.

I thought you were talking about something minimal. I agree with you that the art direction should match. An animation should look like it's in time with the action happening. You're also right about sound quality. There should be no excuse for low quality assets nowadays given the accessibility of high speed internet connections and content out there.

I was also referring to fan games, not recreations. Even then, minor differences on animations or sounds wouldn't really be a problem as long as the gameplay isn't drastically affected by it. At that point, it's just a purist thing if it's not 1:1.

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Kinda agreeing with ila here. If you're honestly trying to stir discussion, avoid obvious bias like this:

Overall: Fan Games are for creative people that want to simply make a speical Sonic Game.
Lazies are recommended to go hacking.

Overall: Sonic Hacking is for geeks that want to show what they can do to existing Sonic Game.

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Honestly, animation speeds and sound effects aren't nitpicky in the slightest, especially considering that the sonic 2 re-release is a remake. It's not a remix, it's a 1:1 remake, and something like awfully noticeable animation differences and sound  modulation should be taken care of. The Taxman remakes are NOT fangames, they are official Sega products.

 

I've beaten Sonic 2 more double the amount of any other sonic game, and I had a hard time noticing any real differences between the genesis version and taxman remake. It's pretty irrelevant. 

 

Anyway i've been against the whole "1:1 sonic experience" thing when I developed the biased idea that fangames have all become boring because of it. In the least, Sonic Hacks avoid one usual issue that fangames have, which is being underdeveloped or buggy. They more commonly feel complete because they're created with pre-determined limitations on what the creator can add.

 

Also, I laugh at the concept of Taxman's remake being an official sega product...there's some sweet irony about it that i just cant put my finger on.

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Fan Games are for creative people that want to simply make a speical Sonic Game.

Lazies are recommended to go hacking.

...Wow Stardust I'm disappointed. That is both insulting AND wrong.

Hacking can take a lot more work than fangame development. Sonic Megamix, Sonic 3 Complete, Sonic Classic Heroes, Sonic 2 Retro Remix, do you really think these were the result of laziness? The amount of effort that has gone into such hacks is difficult to fathom.

There is no set bar of what takes more work. That depends on the developer and the game they create. But to say hacking is somehow lazier or easier than fangame development couldn't be more wrong.

Edited by Mr Lange
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You have no idea how many messages/comments I've received telling me Overture is a great "hack". I do not understand why it's so hard for people to tell the difference between fangames and hacks.

 

A hack is something that can be played in emulators and in some cases, actual hardware.

A fangame is something that can be played from a standalone .exe, and depending on what it was made, can be ported to a variety of platforms.

 

Today, the difference between the quality of fangames and hacks is diminishing, however, they are very distinct things on a technical level.

Edited by Jassbec
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Probably because the end product is the same. Or at least, it's supposed to be.

 

This is a funny topic because fangames let you do pretty much whatever you want, but most fangames these days try to be classic sonic games. Which kind of removes the only real thing fangames have over hacks, which is complete creative freedom. 

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Fangames still give you more freedom, even if you're doing a classic fangame. There's no palette limitations, tiles, programing is easier (for the most part), music can be the quality you desire, etc.

 

But yes, you're right, the end result ends up looking and feeling about the same.

Edited by Jassbec
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sometimes people are confused with what a hack is and what a fan game is. the main difference to tell the 2 apart is that a hack already has the physics correct for when people start to make it, a fan game requires you to start from scratch. I wouldn't say a hack is lazy but I do think a hack is easier than a fan game. The only time I think a hack is harder to make is when you start to change the physics in the game. Fan games like sonic overture and sonic after the sequel are not hacks because fan's had to make the engine from scratch.

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The main difference is that a hack is a modification of existing rom data, which is a program that runs on exclusively on a console, and a fangame is a program created from scratch that runs on a personal computer or other desired system. Technically, it has nothing to do with whether physics are already there or not, and a hack or a fangame does not necessarily mean it is Sonic related anyway.

 

The difference between hacks and fangames is very significant.

Given a hack is a program exclusive to the console, it inherits all the limitations of the console, which are usually very strict and difficult to work with. Formats for assets and code are unconventional and require unusual means to work with and programming may require dealing unfriendly forms of code, which can complicate things greatly given a console's limitations. Even something as simple as replacing a sprite or adding a bit of code can destabilize the game in unexpected ways or produce unwanted results that require a lot of work to fix. Generally speaking, adding a spindash in a hack is much more complicated than adding a spindash in a fangame.

A fangame is only limited by the computer you're working on, which especially nowadays, gives the developer enormous freedom in what they can accomplish. Assets and code can be as conventional and friendly as the developer needs. Formats and language can be chosen to the developer's preference. Far more robust and intuitive tools exist to create the game that cover more aspects of development. The resulting program can run universally on the devices it was designed for, most likely being personal computers. However, fangames cannot run on consoles like the Sega Genesis, and this would be virtually impossible to accomplish. This is not counting the exceedingly rare exceptions where a fangame was explicitly designed for a game console, by making a game from scratch that runs exclusively on the console (with these, the line between fangame and hack may be a bit blurrier, but these would still be fangames and not hacks).

 

Given all that I explained above, it seems like fangames are really the "lazier" way to go. No worries about formats, no strict limitations, easier means of programming, convenient friendly tools. But these things do not make it lazier. With such means, you can still put any amount of effort into creating your game, as much as you would a hack.

 

And again, it's important to emphasize that a hack is a modification of an existing game, and can only run on the console belonging to the modified game, whereas a fangame is designed freely from scratch that can run on personal computers, without needing to adhere to the severe limitations imposed by a console. In fact, the only thing that even defines a fangame is that the game is based on an existing franchise in some way. A fangame is really just a game that happens to be about something you're a fan of. The form of that game can be anything. In that sense you can call a hack a fangame, but you cannot call a fangame a hack. However, it is best that hacks are not referred to as fangames given that a fangame is much more broad and a hack is much more specific. Saying something is a fangame will imply it's a game for personal computers and most likely not a hack or rom. Saying something is a hack when it is not is wrong period.

 

 

To put this in perspective, here is why it is so absurd to refer to fangames as hacks.

 

 

Here is one of the most impressive and advanced hacks ever made.

6ca1Kkv.png

While it looks nice and interesting, it will never exceed the limitations imposed by the console. It will always look like a Sega Genesis game and the game's capabilities will always be restricted to the console's heavy limitations. This includes only 2d graphics, color counts, resolution, memory used by code and graphics, the ability of the synthesizer sound chip, and number of sprites visible on screen. It can be played on the console and via emulators.

 

 

Here is a fangame.

zKMXB5V.jpg

It is light years beyond anything the Genesis is capable of, and it is absolutely impossible to accomplish even a small fraction of this game on the Genesis. It features multitextured 3d models, skeletal animation, scalable resolution, CD quality sampled audio, 3d sound effects, and the list goes on. The capability of this game could go far beyond even this. It was created from scratch in Unity, and only runs on PCs.

Edited by Mr Lange
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Adding up a bit on what Lange said, it's not a matter of which one is lazier: Both can be 'lazy' if the developer chooses to be.

When it comes to romhacks, there's those that change mechanics, implement new characters and add levels. On the other hand, there are romhacks which are simply palette swaps of level tiles done with editors like SonED or whatever. Those could be defined as 'lazy'.

As for fangames, there are prebuilt engines that a developer can open, stick a title screen to, and release with a barebones test level.

Both worlds are different and imply different limitations and workflows. A ROM hacker starts off with a dissassembly of the original game and works from there. The main engine, memory management and sound driver are present from the outset. Limitations exist and need to be addressed. If the hacker does things incorrectly, the console will glitch out or crash.

A fangame developer starts with a blank slate. Before the current feature-filled premade engines, the 'lazy' way to do things was to use the TGF/MMF platform movement system. Today, it's the prebuilt engines like Worlds and Dash, but making a game is not just making an engine - it implies graphic design, music design and several other factors. The current tools prevent things from breaking in most cases, so the dev is free to play around. Worse that can happen is a Windows 'Program stopped working' message.

Another difference of the two is the legality. Let's take Freedom Planet and apply it to both cases.

The real case is that FP is based on Sonic Worlds. The engine is publicly available and Strife & co. adapt it to their original IP. The result is a game that can be sold, which is the case at hand. The base engine's logic is not Sega's, so there's no issue.

Now, let's imagine FP was romhack based instead. Even with the original characters and music, the game would have a critical issue: It's based on a dissassembly of a commercially released game (e.g. Sonic 3), which would violate copyright. In this situation, the engine is Sega's own code. You can't copyright the 'natural' math that drives the engine (although copyright trolls would like to differ) but you can copyright a specific implementation of the program code, which is the game itself.

Now, Sega is surprisingly tolerant with its fans (I still think they gave SOR Remake a couple days before C&D'ing them so that the game would spread), so romhackers usually proceed with their works without issues - since they're never commercialized.

In short, there are amazing fangames and romhacks just like there are lazy fangames and romhacks. And you know why that is? It has NOTHING to do with either 'world' - it's all up to the developer who works on the product in question.

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In short, there are amazing fangames and romhacks just like there are lazy fangames and romhacks. And you know why that is? It has NOTHING to do with either 'world' - it's all up to the developer who works on the product in question.

That is true. it pretty much falls down to how lazy the developer is. One other thing it could count on is other people. you see fan games like sonic after the sequel and Super Mario Bros x out there, as well as hacks such as Sonic Megamix and Project M. They all have one thing in common. Its that they involved multiple people to make them. Most fan games/ hacks involve multiple people in order to become a fan game/ hacks that people will try and play. If only 1 person was involved in a fan game/ hack that was going to be as good as the ones I said above, then it would ether take forever to create, or not be finished at all.

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There are many great one man projects, though. BTS/ATS for example are pretty much all Lake, but I think we have to set that as a separate case because Lake must be some sort of robot or something. Seriously Lake, I'm amazed at your productivity and can only feel ashamed of myself for not working on my stuff lol

You're right that one man projects do take a long time to finish, and that's if they actually ARE finished. Regardless, I don't think team size is a defining factor. It's up to the skill and dedication of the dev(s).

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